Controversy
gosh its been a long time since we've had some of that, wot?
This is a reply to a blog posting by an old friend about homosexuality. He is a good writer, a good person, and his ideas are well thought out.
But I really feel I have to respond; and I welcome any thoughts and ideas that this might generate.
As a Christian, I do not have an animosity to homosexual sex. I just believe that it is wrong, for one simple reason: God said so. He also said that ANY sex outside of marriage is wrong, and I believe that too; like I believe that murder is wrong, and theft is wrong etc etc. And, having engaged in much wrongness in my life, I have much to be repentant of, like that night in Phoenix with the nun, her two dogs, and that bottle of Stoli....
But I digress.
See, God didn't ask us to go through the bible and choose the bits we agree with; He didn't tell us to go and rationalize new rules and throw out old ones, He didn't tell us to walk away from Him because we disagree with His opinion.
For whatever reason He chose (and well, His planet, His rules) he decided that some things were right and some were wrong. Maybe it makes sense to us, maybe it doesn't. That's not the point of faith. If faith were logical or could be seen to meet rules of logic and common sense, it wouldn't be faith.
God had His reasons, and we might never figure them out. I mean, who can know the mind of God?? Indeed, there are some things we know are in the bible simply to allow us to prove and strengthen our faith. Its got nothing to do with logic, or common sense, or rationale.
Its all about faith.
If we have a relationship with God, He asks us to obey Him, whether or not we agree with His choices. So regardless of what our intellect tells us, or our hearts - God made the rules, and we either obey them, or we don't. Christians who disagree with homosexuality (for example) are not being "right wing" or "hysterical" or "fundamentalist" or any other epithet we are routinely stuck with. We are not hate mongers, or bigots, or violators of human rights.
We are simply choosing God over ourselves, our culture and the choices that the world makes. For myself, I have dear friends that are gay, and I love them to bits.
But I still choose God.
As Bruce is fond of telling me: "There is a God. You ain't Him."
Lots of love,
Annie
posted by AMackid at 8:05 PM
13 Comments:
This comment has been removed by the author.
I used to be against it, but then I realized, what with the world population being roughly half men and half women, that for every two men out there playing sheep rancher with one another, there are two lonely, unsatisfied women, probably desperate enough to have a fling with an old, fat, bald villain.
So I say: have at it gentlemen.
you selfless thing, you ;-)
If sex is consensual, whether it be homosexual or not, it is a choice, and if outside of marriage, is wrong, of course, as you said.
But I don't think that being homosexual is a choice. I don't think someone chooses to be gay (this term referring to both men and women). How could being homosexual be wrong if someone simply just is. I've never heard an explanation as to how being homosexual is a choice...but maybe it can be and I'm just not aware of how it is a choice.
And I certainly wouldn't label you or anyone else who disagrees with homosexuality in a decent manner is a bigot or fundamentalist or anything like that.
I appreciate the not labeling; but then again, I've come to respect you as a very well thought-out person, K.
But I would say that while you are right - it may not be a choice to BE gay, or an alcoholic, or a serial killer, or a pedophile - acting on our impulses is very much within our control. Speaking for myself, I did not "choose" to be an alcoholic; but the choice to drink or not is entirely mine.
We knew that when sin entered the world, we were ALL lost. And there is no sin (homosexuality, having children outside of marriage, stealing, drug abuse) that is any better or worse in God's eyes.
We're ALL sinners.
God gave us the choice. Its called "free will". "Obedience" is using that free will to serve God.
Right. I'm done :-)
Right. All sin is sin, there is no worst sin or least sin; sin is sin...
However, I don't quite see how being a homosexual, but not engaging in pre marital sex, is a sin.
If a man finds himself having feelings for other men, and not for women, or a woman finds herself having feelings for other women, and not for men, how is that sin? It is not his or her choice to be having those feelings. They just exist. They're born having interest in their same gender. Is being born a homosexual, if you agree with that statement, sin?
If you don't feel someone can be born with that orientation, then how is it that they become gay?
This is all just from observation and from listening to others. I have no clue if you can be "born" gay or not, because I'm not gay. Nonetheless, I do believe that some people are born as homosexuals.
The questions I asked are just to clarify some things, because I don't think I quite understood what you were getting at. I completely and utterly respect your opinions/thoughts.
"I don't quite see how being a homosexual, but not engaging in pre marital sex, is a sin. "
You raise excellent issues, and I agree wholeheartedly with the questions.
Apart from Catholics - its not what you feel, its how you act on those feelings.
Sin introduced all the wrongness in the world; but God told us that the decision was up to us: He gave us all the information we needed, and the let us decide.
That's the incredible miracle of God's love, as I see it.
He never forced us. He simple let us choose Him, or not.
Excellent discussion!
Well thought out and respectuful.
When I was raised a Catholic I was raised to understand that the practice of homosexuality was a sin as is stated in the bible.
I could have chosen to restrain myself and live a life of celibacy and loneliness.
Naturally I left Catholicism.
There are many progressive Christian churches in the world that respect Homosexuals and Lesbians, I suggest all of this persuasion to find these churches and join them. Ignore all others.
Oh ... actually I did not mean that for Lesbians, Lesbianism is not a sin .... as there is no mention of it in the bible.
I wonder why Lesbianism is not a sin?
Odd about the lesbiansm, I'll admit. I think it may largely be due to the fact that in the ancient world, boy-on-boy love was a given, but the LPGA tour had yet to be invented ;-)
And between you an me, I don't blame ANYONE for leaving Catholicism, for ANY reason :-D
moooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I have to admit that I see the Bible as a respected, sacred history book written by MAN, interpreting God's divine direction. Obviously, this has stood in the way of me practising any form of Christian devotion. BUT I still respect the religion and many of the devotees!
I do not think Lesbianism was mentioned because in that culture and at that time, women were considered to be owned objects to be bought and sold. They were cattle, it did not matter if they were lesbians, as long as they bore children and tended to their duties ... there was no threat to the social law...or balance.
On the other hand, men sleeping with men - there are no children created, which means a smaller male fighting force, which means the possibility of being defeated in battle....
which means less women to buy and sell.....
Children were resources and Homosexuality threatened that resource and invited CHOICE to not procreate.... it was outlawed.
Now.... Homosexuality is a blessing, if we all reproduced, like we are taught in the bible.... we would soon run out of resources, as we are presently doing.
Quite frankly OVER POPULATION should be declared a sin. Shame on you Heterosexuals for ruining this planet (Just kidding but you get my point I am sure)
Lastly, it is not that I challenge GOD's word and his laws. I challenge the minds of the men who wrote the bible and their perception of social order - and I think about how this would have been a very different world.
I also consider the many translations of the bible and consider that it was translated into English not so long ago .... it has suffered the tragedies of poor interpretations and poor translations...
Hence, I challenge the bible as something that can not be relied on as hitorically accurate, due to our present cultural state, due to the passage of time, and due to the arrogant controlling nature of men ....who at times translated for their benefit...not that of God's.
Peace and Blessings.
Lil Sparrow
Absolutely. God never forced us to love Him. And whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not, well, we'll never know for sure.
********************************
And I have to agree with the thought about the Bible having so many translations and the culture/cultural ideas of the times in which the books of the Bible were written.
And another thing !!!!
There are two things in this world that really should be declared sins ..... due to their morbid betrayal of humanity and especially women ....
Fashion shows
Beauty pagents.....
YEP !!!
They should be both declared sins.
xo
LS
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